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  1. #1
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    Default Spool Device

    A friend of mine recently sent me this information about a product he has been developing. It is towards the end of the testing stage and he is trying to get some feedback. I'd like to hear your thoughts (and pass them on to him). While this is primarily developed for the Supra world, there would be some application for guys using the GT35 and larger turbos. He's sending me pictures of this device and as soon as I have them I will post them here.

    "The only requirement is you will need a divided turbine housing on your turbo and it must be a tangential housing (most turbos are this way). Most manufacturers make divided turbines for turbos that are around or a bit larger than the 16G size. Sometimes they don't always come with the turbo, but they may make them.

    Spoolup will increase anywhere from 600-1000rpm with this device. Take a look below for charts (old data) and numbers.

    This means you will have an extra 100-150+ HP under the curve (depending on the turbo) where you never had it before. The car will feel more linear in turbo spoolup and it will allow you to have more traction on a roadcourse instead of a turbo that's on/off. It will knock time off your drag racing 1/4 as well since the turbo will spool faster in-between shifts.

    The device is internal to the turbo itself and I will need your turbine housing cores to do the machining and building of the device. Unfortunately at this time I do not have spare cores sitting around, but if you would like me to buy you an extra one I can refund your cash on reception of your core.

    Here is a log of my spoolup chart showing how much extra boost you have earlier on with a GT4202 single turbo. Full spool is nearly 700+ rpm when the device is turned on.

    Here are the AEM logs showing the data
    device off
    device on

    Here are some newer spool numbers from one of the newer tuning sessions I was doing:
    3000 - 2psi
    3200 - 3psi
    3400 - 4.5psi
    3600 - 6.2psi
    3800 - 8.6psi
    4000 - 12psi
    4100 - 15psi
    4200 - 17psi
    4300 - 20psi

    The great thing about this product is that there are NO modifications to the exhaust header or the exhaust downpipe whatsoever. The device is fully contained inside the turbocharger. The only piece on the outside is the actuator which controls the device, and it is very small in size. It can be located on either side of the turbo and bolts to the bottom side of the turbo flange.

    Pricing is to be $599 per turbo. Price includes everything including machining, installation, brackets, and actuator. This is a bolt-on piece!

    ************************************************** ***
    Some questions I had come up
    ************************************************** ***
    Is it serviceable? - It's meant to be a permanent installation inside the turbo, but it can be removed if it is no longer wanted/needed. The solenoid is obviously removed by bolts and the turbo can be set in the "off" position by wiring the gate in the top-most position ("off"). It is meant to really never have failures. The material is made of 304L stainless and is meant to never have to be serviced. Replacement gates or brackets would be available if needed, but they should never have issues.

    Can it be moved to another turbo? - If it is the same size turbo then yes. You can simply swap the turbine housing to the new turbo and you are set. Different sized turbos need different sized gates and machining processes so it would not be something you can pull out of one and swap to a larger turbo if you decide to upgrade. I'm sure the retail price for your used turbo will be much higher with the device in place and you would be able to get most of your money back out of it on ebay.

    How is it activated? - There is a wastegate solenoid attached to a bracket which pushes a moment arm that swings the gate open/closed. The wastegate can come in any spring pressure you would like, and you can also use a boost controller on the line to manage boost pressure switch-over if needed. The gate can also be activated with an electronic actuator and software like the AEM. It's a set it and forget it type of thing, I have mine set at 7psi and it has stayed there ever since. The goal is to get the turbo spooled enough so it can spin on the exhaust pressure currently running through the turbine. 7-9psi seems to be the perfect spot for larger frame turbos.

    Is there any restriction? - Only when the device is "on". This only happens when the turbo is spooling up and there is minimal exhaust flow through the turbine. Backpressure is increased during these times, but this is what spools the turbo up quicker. The main thing to note is that any loss due to the backpressure is massively offset by the rise in HP.

    What gains are there? - Dyno testing by another company has shown in some spots an extra 150 + HP under the curve at the wheels. This gives you up to an extra 1000 rpm of spool time and power under the curve. It's the same difference between running 15psi on the dyno and 25psi on the dyno down low...you definitely feel it in the seat of the pants. I would equate it to running a shot of nitrous to spool the turbo, except the nitrous never runs out! The gain is only on spoolup and it does not net you a higher overall HP, but it will make your car faster in every scenario (drag racing, road coursing, and on the street). At some points on the chart above you can see a difference of 10psi of boost, this makes the car feel completely different.

    What's the process to get it done to my turbo? - Unfortunately right now I do not have cores of every type and style of turbo laying around to have product ready to purchase. What has to happen is you need to send in your turbine housing (or pay for a new housing) for me to machine and retrofit the device to your turbine. When you receive it back you will just bolt it up where your old one went, that's it. Right now it looks like the time to get the machining done is about a week, and then however quickly you would want it back I can ship it. For UPS ground I would assume a total time of 2 weeks from time you ship until time you receive it back."

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    So what is it? Any pics of the actual device?
    Jerry Ledford (aka LaserAWD)
    05 Evo VIII
    '92 Laser AWD FP3052, 24psi, 93 oct
    11.15 @ 124.6 - parted / sold

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    Jerry, I haven't gotten any pics from him yet. From my discussion with him it is a valve that shuts off exhaust flow to half of the turbine housing to increase exhaust velocity through the turbine housing. I'll press him for pictures

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    Sound Performance has had this out for awhile.
    Just based on your description it sounds similar.

    It seems like you would need an intelligent controller as the window for actual operation would be pretty small. (WOT, and 1500-4000 rpm +/-) Otherwise you'd be driving around with a serious cylinder imbalance. SP gets around this by calling for an undivided manifold.
    Last edited by The Tex; 2008-12-05 at 10:09:15.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Tex View Post
    Sound Performance has had this out for awhile.
    Just based on your description it sounds similar.

    It seems like you would need an intelligent controller as the window for actual operation would be pretty small. (WOT, and 1500-4000 rpm +/-) Otherwise you'd be driving around with a serious cylinder imbalance. SP gets around this by calling for an undivided manifold.
    An actuator is used to activate the device.

    Any manifold will work with this device, as well as not having to modify your exhaust since the device is bolt-on.

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    If I had to guess, I would assume it is some sort of solenoid actuated flapper valve that cuts off 1 scroll of the turbine housing, forcing all of the exhaust through a single scroll during low flow / rpms. I also assume he is trying to be vague about the description in order to prevent copycats.

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    Sounds like it's some type of variable vane setup that's added into an existing turbo.
    -John

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    BTW guys, I'm Jays buddy that came up with this idea about 2.5 years ago and have been using it on my car ever since. I always wanted to produce the product but never had the time and machine access.

    I'm also the guy that built the molded loggers for the 3000gt/dsm crowd (miragecorp automotive).

    Quote Originally Posted by John Hindle View Post
    Sounds like it's some type of variable vane setup that's added into an existing turbo.

    Basically yes.

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    That's what I was thinking it was but wasn't sure. I could see not wanting pics to get out due to copy-catters but a little more info would make someone feel better about spending $600
    Jerry Ledford (aka LaserAWD)
    05 Evo VIII
    '92 Laser AWD FP3052, 24psi, 93 oct
    11.15 @ 124.6 - parted / sold

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Ledford View Post
    That's what I was thinking it was but wasn't sure. I could see not wanting pics to get out due to copy-catters but a little more info would make someone feel better about spending $600
    I have pictures coming onto my website, but initially while I'm gearing up and getting everything ready for mass production I'm trying to hold back on specifics used to manufacture the device.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Patrick View Post
    Jay,

    The other device mentioned in this thread states that the requirements are DIVIDED turbine housing AND UNDIVIDED exhaust manifold. Is that the same for your friend's device?
    No, as long as you have a divided turbo, the device will bolt up to ANY header/exhaust combination.


    Quote Originally Posted by CraigKalin View Post
    If I had to guess, I would assume it is some sort of solenoid actuated flapper valve that cuts off 1 scroll of the turbine housing, forcing all of the exhaust through a single scroll during low flow / rpms. I also assume he is trying to be vague about the description in order to prevent copycats.
    Exactly, the tricky part is machining it so that it will work and I have some patents I'm working on for some of them.

    With all of this though, the devices are ready to be built and sold. Trying to roll it out to the guys who really know how well it works at first and then hopefully have everyone else see from the guys with a lot of rep in the community.

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    [QUOTE=Jay White;321311]A friend of mine recently sent me this information about a product he has been developing. It is towards the end of the testing stage and he is trying to get some feedback. I'd like to hear your thoughts (and pass them on to him). While this is primarily developed for the Supra world, there would be some application for guys using the GT35 and larger turbos. He's sending me pictures of this device and as soon as I have them I will post them here.

    "The only requirement is you will need a divided turbine housing on your turbo and it must be a tangential housing (most turbos are this way).

    Jay,

    The other device mentioned in this thread states that the requirements are DIVIDED turbine housing AND UNDIVIDED exhaust manifold. Is that the same for your friend's device?
    The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all.
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    So you use a solinoid to control a valve to cut off 50% or so of one side? Don't you think it would be safer to cut off both sides of the scroll equally with two valves?

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    You're not blocking exhaust from one bank of cylinders if one side gets blocked off in my device (unlike the other one mentioned above). It just throats all exhaust to one scroll of the turbo (increasing velocity and pressure at the turbine).

    Once the turbo has become "spooled" the gate is moved so full flow is restored to the device. This can also be done with an electrical actuator if you want to do it from AEM etc.
    http://automotive.miragecorp.com
    1999 3000GT GT42'd - http://3si.picturealbums.org/v/shiver-91vr4/

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    Nevermind, your last post cleared my concerns.

    Except you may want to give a road race guy (not a drag racer) one of these to make sure it is going to hold up. I would be worried about potential FOD damage to the turbine if it came apart or failed.
    Last edited by The Tex; 2008-12-05 at 13:58:24.
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    Uhm... Yeah I think one of us is not understanding the other. It may be me but I'll try to get clarification. If you throttle all the exhaust to one scroll on a divided exhaust manifold then the exhaust will *not* go to the other side. It would quite literally have to flow up the runners again, through the cylinders out the intake valves up the intake runners and down the other runners. Which I'm fairly certain would be bad. If you cut it down only a certain amount to one bank then you cause an unequal amount of backpressure through one bank. This is also bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Tex View Post
    Nevermind, your last post cleared my concerns.

    Except you may want to give a road race guy (not a drag racer) one of these to make sure it is going to hold up. I would be worried about potential FOD damage to the turbine if it came apart or failed.
    The internal parts are large enough that they would not fit through the scroll of the housing if anything failed. Everything inside is tig welded together to ensure it will not fail.

    I've had it on my ~1000awhp 3000GT for 2+ years with 0 issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Lehmkuhl View Post
    Uhm... Yeah I think one of us is not understanding the other. It may be me but I'll try to get clarification. If you throttle all the exhaust to one scroll on a divided exhaust manifold then the exhaust will *not* go to the other side. It would quite literally have to flow up the runners again, through the cylinders out the intake valves up the intake runners and down the other runners. Which I'm fairly certain would be bad. If you cut it down only a certain amount to one bank then you cause an unequal amount of backpressure through one bank. This is also bad.
    Sorry if I wasn't being clear (this is the piece that makes the design a lot better than the other spool device). It's not a butterfly valve, but more of a diverter valve that can take whatever you input (be it two banks feeding a divided manifold, or a shared exhaust header) and push them to one side of the scroll housing.

    So if you have a divided manifold, it keeps the manifold divided when the device is fully open and "off", but when it's "on" and diverting flow, it basically opens up one side of your manifold to share the exhaust gasses through one scroll of the turbine. So both banks will flow through one scroll to basically double the velocity and pressure.

    There is increased back pressure because you're tightening the a/r of the turbo down to half of what it is stock. But it is shared across all cylinders. This would happen with any type of VNT turbo as well though. Basically the same thing as the turbocharger in general. The power lost from increased backpressure (only up to a certain boost level when the device is "on") is more than compensated by the power gained by spooling the turbo early.

    I can send pictures of a demo device to those who are interested if you shoot me your email address, it may give you a better idea of how it works. I'd just like to keep it under wraps until it's fully into production.
    http://automotive.miragecorp.com
    1999 3000GT GT42'd - http://3si.picturealbums.org/v/shiver-91vr4/

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    Also, there is only 1 moving internal part, 2 total internal parts made of 304L stainless, it will never rust and is good at whatever heat you can throw at it.
    http://automotive.miragecorp.com
    1999 3000GT GT42'd - http://3si.picturealbums.org/v/shiver-91vr4/

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    That makes much better sense, and is from what you describe a much better way to do it. I'm your huckleberry then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Lehmkuhl View Post
    That makes much better sense, and is from what you describe a much better way to do it. I'm your huckleberry then.
    Glad I could clarify.

    Not sure what that last sentence meant though

    If you want to take a look at how the quality is on things I do take a look at the pictures of my car here:
    http://3si.picturealbums.org/v/shiver-91vr4/

    I'm very picky about how things are done, and always looking for ways to improve things. There's a bunch of cool one off parts on the car that I made that I never got a chance to throw into production, but I like the fabricating aspect.

    If a few of you are interested in getting this done we can do a group buy and I can cut the price down a bit (depending on how many we would do).

    Do a lot of you guys run large GT30 frame or larger size turbos?
    http://automotive.miragecorp.com
    1999 3000GT GT42'd - http://3si.picturealbums.org/v/shiver-91vr4/

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    I don't think I have an edit function on my menu, but you can also take a look at my trader rating and rep from www.3si.org. I've been into 3000gt's and dsms for ~7 years.
    http://automotive.miragecorp.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    Glad I could clarify.

    Do a lot of you guys run large GT30 frame or larger size turbos?
    A lot of the members here (I would say almost a majority) run a gt30 or larger turbo.
    89 mirage turbo - 91 talon awd auto - 95 summit awd - 99 Miata turbo - 08 Evo X

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Patrick View Post
    Chris,

    I'd like pics and a more detailed explanation. patricklawfirm@comcast.net
    Email sending now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Gray View Post
    A lot of the members here (I would say almost a majority) run a gt30 or larger turbo.
    Sounds good. I have yet to try this on a 2L 4cyl, but it will work the same exact way as on my car.

    I have ~1000rpm quicker spool on a GT42 with my car, and I'm sure it would be even more increased if I didn't have a v6 with long tube headers joining both banks of cylinders together.

    It makes the on/off feeling of a large turbo car almost go completely away (depending on turbo size of course).

    I've compared my spool numbers with other turbos guys have put on 3000's and basically it spools as fast as a turbo with 200-300 less HP potential. I would assume it would spool a 35R almost as fast as a 20G or so if not quicker. Mine spools the same as twin 16G's.
    http://automotive.miragecorp.com
    1999 3000GT GT42'd - http://3si.picturealbums.org/v/shiver-91vr4/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Gray View Post
    A lot of the members here (I would say almost a majority) run a gt30 or larger turbo.
    Actually, it's a requirement for your membership here.
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    Chris,

    I'd like pics and a more detailed explanation. patricklawfirm@comcast.net
    The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all.
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    This could make me do that upgrade to a GT42 that I've been thinking about. I'm sure this would be a big benefit to the automatic guys especially.
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    This sounds like it could be very beneficial for those who will be using a large turbo on the street, possibly for there DD. I know you said you have had it on your 3000GT for 2 years now, but how many miles are we talking? I know I usually do 20K miles a year and that is a lot of heat cycles for this.

    If you would not mind I would like some information on this also, fwallbil@hotmail.com. If you just want to send me the same thing you sent Mike, that should be more than sufficient. Also you seem to do high quality work, very nice.
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    '86-'88 turbo II RX7 "twin scroll" system
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Brilliant View Post
    '86-'88 turbo II RX7 "twin scroll" system
    You took the words right out of my brain. I'm sure baby small turbos wont see much gain just as it didn't in the RX-7 Turbo 2. In fact many people removed them and picked up power from the restricted flow. I think it's a pretty damm good idea for 37R's and up.

    Another question would be surge. Would some turbos just surge instead of a quicker usable spool? I'm sure the user would have to dial it in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yusuf Begic View Post
    You took the words right out of my brain. I'm sure baby small turbos wont see much gain just as it didn't in the RX-7 Turbo 2. In fact many people removed them and picked up power from the restricted flow. I think it's a pretty damm good idea for 37R's and up.

    Another question would be surge. Would some turbos just surge instead of a quicker usable spool? I'm sure the user would have to dial it in.
    Yes if the turbo hot side is too small.

    On the turbos that have twin scroll entry usually the compressor isn't overly large compared to the turbine and there is a lot of extra flow in there.
    http://automotive.miragecorp.com
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    Looking at the pictures makes it a very interesting concept. Looks like it should work well, when you get the materials and machining issues figured out to your satisfaction.
    The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hill View Post
    Actually, it's a requirement for your membership here.
    That's what I like to hear! I just kept upgrading one turbo after another, and I'm still thinking of throwing one of the new custom GT4208's on there. I'd love to have 1000 awhp on boost alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hill View Post
    This could make me do that upgrade to a GT42 that I've been thinking about. I'm sure this would be a big benefit to the automatic guys especially.
    If you have a 35R or something like that now, with the device and 42 you probably won't notice a difference over your 35...other than the added power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Wallbillick View Post
    This sounds like it could be very beneficial for those who will be using a large turbo on the street, possibly for there DD. I know you said you have had it on your 3000GT for 2 years now, but how many miles are we talking? I know I usually do 20K miles a year and that is a lot of heat cycles for this.

    If you would not mind I would like some information on this also, fwallbil@hotmail.com. If you just want to send me the same thing you sent Mike, that should be more than sufficient. Also you seem to do high quality work, very nice.
    Pictures and information sent. Several thousand miles on the unit in my car, nothing like 20k a year as this is a garage queen, but it definitely gets it's 30psi 900+ deg C EGT heat cycles. I've also used the 2-step and anti-lag with it as well. It was designed to work under MUCH higher exhaust pressures than it's subject to in cars like ours. If temperature REALLY is an issue (although it's going to have to be 2000+ deg F I can make special units out of 321 or inconel. 304L should stand up to anything we can throw at it short of nitro.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Patrick View Post
    Looking at the pictures makes it a very interesting concept. Looks like it should work well, when you get the materials and machining issues figured out to your satisfaction.
    This is what took me 2+ years to get done. I've probably gone to 15-20 machinists and most have said no just to all the machining and the low quantities at this point. The other issue is every turbo is different, especially across different manufacturers and then you add the core shift to the molds and it's a recipe for a huge headache.

    But I have everything worked out now and everything set up to start cranking them out.
    http://automotive.miragecorp.com
    1999 3000GT GT42'd - http://3si.picturealbums.org/v/shiver-91vr4/

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    Chris,
    Awesome fab work on the VR-4:
    http://automotive.miragecorp.com

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    Thanks, where you at around cleveland?
    http://automotive.miragecorp.com
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    I am in Rocky River, about 8 miles west of downtown. I'd love to see that VR-4 if you are ever in the neighborhood.

    I have been thinking about the quick spool valve, how do you get the shaft to seal? It must be tough at that temperature and pressure - the range of temperature is a killer too!

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    Ahh not bad, I'm up around that area all the time.

    The tolerances in the machining and the material properties under heat keep it tight without binding.
    http://automotive.miragecorp.com
    1999 3000GT GT42'd - http://3si.picturealbums.org/v/shiver-91vr4/

  36. #36
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    How many of these do you have in circulation?
    Any warranty?

    You mention a wastegate solenoid which comes with different spring pressures. Can you explain this? I'm picturing a wastegate actuator when you say that at a certain pressure it actuates an arm rather than a solenoid.

    How much more would a unit that can take higher heat cost? Since you mention the heat properties allow the seal, would there be sealing issues with different materials used?

  37. #37
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    I only have the one on my car and am building some for my buddy and his 2 supras.

    I'm a firm believer in the product and will warranty my work for defects, the actual actuator is a garrett piece, I'd have to check on the stock warranty on that.

    I don't think you would really need any other material for the gate. 304L's melting point is 2650 deg F. 316 and 321 do have a bit better yield strengths, but the pieces internal to the turbo really don't have large stresses on them. Normally 321 is used for marine applications because of the salt water, and for pressure vessles as it has more strength in that respect, but the piece internal to the turbo does not have the stresses on it that headers have etc.

    The metal is 1/4" thick on T4 flanged turbos.

    The problem with headers and the 304L is that with inconel and 321 you gain some corrosion resistance and cracking resistance because there is a large load on the headers from the weight of the headers themselves and the turbo. The cracking becomes an issue with the large weights and heat cycling with the thin wall tubing. With this product, the metal is VERY thick, and can withstand the heavy heat. The nice thing about inconel and titanium is that you can lower the wall thickness of the headers to save weight and still have the same crack resistance as stainless.

    For comparison the cast iron that makes up the turbo itself only has a wall thickness of around 1/4" and it's melting point is ~2200 deg F.

    The Tial turbine housings are a LOT thinner and thus a lot less heavy than the cast iron and they are cast stainless.

    I have no problems making the gates out of inconel or 321 if someone would like for peace of mind, I don't think the costs would be that much more. Inconel would be quite a bit more. Let's say $25 for 321 and I'd have to figure it out for the inconel.
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  38. #38
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    Hello Mr. Shiver! Good to see you on here.
    This is looking to be a really nice product you've developed there. I'm thinking I'll pick up a spare exhaust housing and ship it off to you. What kind of time frame are we looking at?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erron Spalsbury View Post
    Hello Mr. Shiver! Good to see you on here.
    This is looking to be a really nice product you've developed there. I'm thinking I'll pick up a spare exhaust housing and ship it off to you. What kind of time frame are we looking at?
    Hey man, nice to see you on here! You have a 4294, right?

    Time frame is 2-3 weeks, mostly all depending on UPS ship times and where your location is. The actual work done on the unit only takes a few days to get it done and trying to schedule when I can get a few done at the same time.

    I'll shoot you a PM with more information on address etc.
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  40. #40
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    nabr group buy?

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    Sure, I would have to have all of the housings at once to be able to do discounts, or wait until I have everyones and do them at the same time.

    It costs me time to setup/disassemble the jigs and machine equipment for the runs, so if we do them all at once I can pass a discount on.
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  42. #42
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    Chris,
    For the common T3 or T4 housing on a one at a time basis, could you post the price?
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Patrick View Post
    Chris,
    For the common T3 or T4 housing on a one at a time basis, could you post the price?
    I think it's up top, but it's $599/turbo one at a time.
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  44. #44
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    This is not new technology guys, its just now gained internet "popularity" It was first featured on the 1986 Mazda rx7 turbo II. Things to watch out for were sticking actuators, and melting flaps. But then again it was a rotary, and it also was designed to run for 60,000 miles, then get a new engine
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    This is not new technology guys, its just now gained internet "popularity" It was first featured on the 1986 Mazda rx7 turbo II. Things to watch out for were sticking actuators, and melting flaps. But then again it was a rotary, and it also was designed to run for 60,000 miles, then get a new engine
    Some patents have been around since the days turbochargers were built.

    The mazda is the only car I could find that actually had it ever go into production on. Everyone tried to run and grab up patents for stuff like this, but no one ever though about how to deal with all of the major issues with them (sticking flaps, sealing, etc), this is where I come in .
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    Some patents have been around since the days turbochargers were built.

    The mazda is the only car I could find that actually had it ever go into production on. Everyone tried to run and grab up patents for stuff like this, but no one ever though about how to deal with all of the major issues with them (sticking flaps, sealing, etc), this is where I come in .

    I heard all the mazda guys ditch the system though, but the details on why didnt really make much sense to me. They were saying that a proper divided manifold was better. But I'm thinking this would be an advantage really for larger turbos in large A/Rs and maybe they just didnt see the advantage on the smallish turbos they were running? Any thoughts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Brilliant View Post
    I heard all the mazda guys ditch the system though, but the details on why didnt really make much sense to me. They were saying that a proper divided manifold was better. But I'm thinking this would be an advantage really for larger turbos in large A/Rs and maybe they just didnt see the advantage on the smallish turbos they were running? Any thoughts?
    The main reason for ditching them was the manifolds and turbo's would crack after prolonged use on the TURBOII, 1700degree Rotary EGT's didn't help either. Just like DSM's it was hard to find a good running car that had one that worked, but when it was operational, it actually did work. Good divided manifolds do work on 13B's because there are only 2 power pulses. This was designed to work on an open type manifold into a twin scroll setup. And unfortunately the factory TURBOII turbo never could make over 17psi without pumping blazing hot air. Advances in manifold material would allow it to work better these days, that was over 20 years ago.

    Good luck with your project!
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  48. #48
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    Thanks, yes there has been a lot of changes in the past 20 years
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    I saw Garrett was working on an actual Variable Vane Technology. Did that ever see production?
    DD project: 1998 Eclipse auto AWD, SFP tubular manifold, 50 trim, .63 exhaust. Greddy IC, piping, exhaust, DSMLink, E85 and tuning..

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dietrich Schuschel View Post
    I saw Garrett was working on an actual Variable Vane Technology. Did that ever see production?
    A bunch of companies have patents and devices based on 10-15 or so vanes that alter the a/r of the housing right by the turbine.

    The problem is that they are overly complex, expensive, and most do not work on gasoline engines because of the high temperatures (usually for diesels).

    I've heard quotes for a single turbo for the 911 turbo's variable vane turbos running $5k+.
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